János Martonyi about the limited room for manoeuvring, the euro crisis, the Central European dream, and about interests and values.

Although this year has not been easy from the point of view of foreign politics it can be considered as unequivocally successful – said János Martonyi to our daily. Among the results the minister of foreign affairs underlined the amendment of the Act on Hungarian Citizenship which had to get across to the neighbouring countries, and the rotating presidency of the European Union, which has produced an enormous benefit. Martonyi noted it is true that the world economic situation is not favourable but the goals have not changed. Hungary’s primary intention is to further strengthen the regional policy and to enhance a global opening.

- Your Excellency, as also Prime Minister Victor Orbán pointed out at the ambassadors’ conference, in these hard times the opportunities of Hungarian diplomacy are limited. What can be the main goal of our foreign policy in a limited room for manoeuvring?

- The risks of the international economic situation should stimulate an even more active foreign politics. Currently, it is a crucial issue whether we are able to produce such an  extremely high export surplus as we we had during the first half of the year. The country has never ever produced such a high foreign trade surplus. It means a significant improvement concerning our security but our work has to go on. It is only feasible, however, if global opening set as a goal in our foreign politics is broken down to actual export activities. The financing of the country is currently ensured and presumably no bond issuance will be required till the end of the year. Despite the high reserves we also have to think of the future since debt repayment needs to be financed also in the coming years. Therefore, it is an extremely important task to search for the cheapest possible new sources to meet this purpose. The deterioration of the foreign economic environment should inspire us to be even more active and intensify the process of opening.

- The foreign policy strategy that is being developed will obviously not ignore Hungary’s economic interests either. Recent statements also suggest that Fidesz, with strong  Euro-Atlantic commitment, is unmistakably open to the East, Russia, China and the Arab world without questioning its  transatlantic commitment. Does this pragmatism also mean that from now on  the so strongly emphasizedvalue-based politicizing will mainly be driven by interests?

- Strictly speaking, let me show you an example of our value based principle. Hungary was among the few countries which right from the first moment were firmly supporting military intervention in Libya despite having significant economic interests in Libya and a large-scale building project started. We could have tried to acquire economic benefits from this situation but we did not. I looked at the events in Libya through the prism of Srebrenica and Rwanda and not that of Iraq. Iraq was different. I thought if Quadhafi and his mercenaries  occupied Benghazi that would mean that thousands of people would die and about one million people would be forced to flee away. This had to be prevented. It is worth noting that the execution of this blood-stained scenario was prevented by the Europeans, namely the French and the British. In this case we were unambiguously driven by values. The question of a correct relationship of values and interests is extremely difficult to answer, anyway. In any conflicting situation in this regard the right decision must be made which is not easy at all. It can be stated, however, that in general it is not good to diverge from the long-term values when it comes to important issues. It does not mean that we give up our values if driven by our economic interests we step out into the world and try to establish the best possible relationship with China, Russia, the Arab world or Africa. We pursue Hungary’s economic interests just like the Americans, German, French, Italians, Poles and others do. Consequently, there is no contradiction between the North-Atlantic commitment and global opening seeking new economic relations. I do not often quote the words of the Prime Minister but also Viktor Orbán stressed at the ambassadors’ conference  that making difference between East and West does not make sense any longer. We are living in a global, multi-polar world with outstandingly significant and less important actors.

- Well, continuing with the already quoted Libyan example, it has to be  noted that now  these actors are all reaching out for money. Suffice to say about the values. It was also due to our current presidency that with the ambassador status maintained Hungary played an important role in the Libyan events. In what manner are we trying to capitalize our presence now that everybody is ‘submitting the bill’ to the new power?

- Our embassy is also currently carrying out an extremely important activity in Tripoli. For example, we provide assistance to the members of the fact finding delegation of the European Union, take part in organising and setting up the EU representation. We used to have and also currently have good relations with Benghazi. We have our permanent envoy also there and after the outburst of the conflict I was the first to meet the designated foreign minister of the National

- It is usually the given country’s performance by which it is basically judged. Hungary’s effort to pull itself together is not favoured by the current external economic environment either. The crisis of the common European currency also hits those outside the euro zone, not to mention the fact that the existing situation also threatens the future of the European Union itself. Many are of the opinion that even in the optimum case the EU will become two-speed, that have an unambiguously negative impact on the region including Hungary as well. Do we have any scenario for such an emergency situation?

- The two-speed Europe has already evolved, and will in all likelihood subsist even if we, the new member states all introduce the euro since, even in that case there will be at least three countries remaining outside the zone. Central Europe has no interest in a multi-level Europe at all. We have conflicting interests, as an example the Austrians handle the common budget issue  differently, but there is consent among us about the issue of a multi-level Europe. Therefore, currently our most important task is ‘to put our own house in order’ and create balance. The amount of debt has to be decreased, the budgetary discipline maintained and the state deficit  steadily reduced to below three percent. As far as the judgement of the country is concerned, everything depends on how these goals can be implemented during the coming years. If we can perform, if we can prove that this large-scale restructuring serves a reasonable purpose, then each of our steps will be testified by success.  

- You mentioned that such a situation would impact the entire region and this fact alone justifies a closer cooperation. The recently so often repeated dream of Central European unity is still far from becoming a reality. What do you think is the reason for it? Actually, where are the borders of Central Europe?

- The region does not have geographical borders. In this sense we can speak of a loose category which is also changing in historical terms. Definition is only possible in cultural, historical and intellectual terms which over the past twenty years have had to be transformed into political and economic cooperation. The Central European Free Trade Agreement was concluded and our mutual trade volume has increased twenty fold. The Visegrad Group was established but the Central European Initiative, the father of which was Italy had already existed, and the number of its original member states increased from four to 18 by today. In the meantime also new concepts have emerged. One year ago, for example, we started to refer to the southern direction very emphatically. On the one hand, our south eastern neighbours include Romania and Bulgaria, already being EU members but still outside the Shengen zone, on the other hand, the West Balcans, knocking on the door to the European Union. Hungary’s EU  presidency had decisive merits in facilitating Croatia’s succession, the actual success would have however not been conceivable without strong Central European support. Each country of the region firmly supported enlargement, including Austria and Italy, being our real allies among the large member states. In this manner it was possible to finish the negotiations at the very last moment and currently we are trying to promote the issue of Serbia’s succession. Consequently, this geographically non-definable Central European approach was working. The reason is that not only the memories, dishes and culture we have are common but we also have the same interests. It is these common interests which we intend to accurately define so that later on we can represent them within the framework of the existing institutional system in the most efficient way possible.

- A strong Central Europe is inconceivable without Poland. Warsaw’s obvious intention is, however, to play on another ground, with an eye to the large actors and it seems that the region has secondary importance to them. Is this, to say the least,  restrained Polish approach not a disappointment for you being so firmly committed to Central Europe?

- To some it may appear that there have been periods when the Polish approach was more restrained than expected. Poland was however enthusiastically supporting Hungary’s EU  presidency right from the beginning. Those who were there in Warsaw on July 1 when we handed over presidency, listened through the speeches, read some publications of the Polish press or were present at the negotiations could make sure that the atmosphere was basically different.

- There has not ever been a deficit of appealing words so far …

- Politics is also made up of words but there is no problem with the contents either. We have made great progress in the field of connecting infrastructures. The pipelines, highways, railway lines are being constructed, financing is working out and economic relations are becoming stronger and stronger. Poland is an extremely important Central European country but it does not mean that Poland should not participate in the Weimar Dialogue for example. Moreover, it is also good for Central Europe if Poland is part of any type of cooperation in which due to its size it can also represent Central European concepts, if needed. Therefore, we are not jealous of the Weimar cooperation at all. The interest of Central Europe is that the countries of the region do not compete with each other but that their interests are jointly represented towards the other regions. In this regard a good opportunity is offered by the negotiations on the 2014-2020 EU budget because a decisive interest of the acceding countries is that the amount and distribution of the cohesion funds are favourable for them. But I could also mention the agricultural or energy policies.

- Central European policy is strongly linked to neighbourhood policy that at the time of the first Orbán government was subject to sustained criticism. Today the situation is different even if the Hungarian-Slovakian relations cannot be defined as good. To which extent is this relation determined by the given political constellation? What are the chances that our relations with the neighbouring countries are balanced whatever the political line of the existing government is.

- This factor cannot be completely eliminated. The history of Hungarian-Slovakian relations over the past twenty years well indicates the fact that the relations have basically varied according to the political line of the Bratislava government. We have debates with Slovakia irrespective of its governments, anyway. Currently, there are two sensitive issues. One issue is related to how to interpret the term of so-called ‘actual relationship’ between the citizen and the mother country in case of citizenship, the other issue is related to community rights which were given another impetus by the new Hungarian constitution. Our views are rather different but it does not mean that the relationship between the two countries needs to be tense. It is however another issue when such steps are taken which deteriorate the situation of the Hungarians living in Slovakia.

- When a country is going through difficult times it tends to become isolated, moreover, it is claimed by many that one of  the serious threats Hungary is facing is that the country is getting on to the periphery. Therefore, it is rather fortunate that Hungarian diplomacy has also global ambitions. This has been shown by the already mentioned role taken in Libya where we could properly identify our task corresponding to our weight. Becoming a non-permanent member of the United National Security Council in 2012-2013 should also be mentioned here. What chances do we have?  

- Applying for Security Council non-permanent membership is part, better to say an instrument of the global opening referred to above. This is why I defined it as a non-strategic goal because the strategic goal is global opening itself. It has its own instruments, such as being or becoming a member of the Security Council. We have inherited the claim for membership which we have maintained after having assessed the situation. Although it was a little bit late when the previous government indicated such intention because we were lagging about one year and a half behind the Slovenians, we did not want to change this decision. We are doing active lobbying and will do every effort for the success of our application also during the period remaining until the autumn voting. Should we not become successful, the campaign can still be considered as useful because we have established contact with numerous countries, and winning Security Council membership would be a fortunate event because thereby Hungary’s weight in international politics would be enhanced during those two years.

- The support to Hungarian candidacy is strongly related to how we soon will vote in the UN about the recognition of the Palestinian state. Has the Hungarian position already been clarified?

- First we would need to know how the issue itself will be raised. For the time being there are different versions and what the Palestinian National Authority will propose on September 20 has not yet been finalized. Moreover, it is our fundamental interest that in respect of this issue that is so important from the point of view of world politics the EU is not divided. This can be avoided if the text of the draft resolution is such that it is accepted by all parties concerned. Hungarian diplomacy will make every effort in the interest of formulating such a common position.

Gábor Stier

(Magyar Nemzet)