Prime Minister Viktor Orbán spoke to Zsolt Bukovinszky on 27 February 2014 on Ózd City Television's "Apropos" programme.

Zsolt Bukovinszky: Dear viewers, this evening's guest on Apropos is Prime Minister Viktor Orbán. Welcome and good evening, Prime Minister.

Orbán Viktor: Good evening to all your viewers.

ZsB: "I have some good news to share with you", you said recently in your state of the nation address. With what good news have you arrived here in Ózd?

OV: I have arrived in Ózd more in the spirit if interest. My view is that it is usually better if people don't come down here from Budapest and start explaining things to people; people who come here would do better to ask questions instead. And this is what will be happening here today, too. I will be consulting with the Mayor, with Gábor Riz, and with our other Members of Parliament, and I will also be meeting businessmen and investors who operate in the city. And of course we will be placing a time capsule to mark the launch of a future investment project. We had an idea in 2010, and everyone in Fidesz, including myself, viewed this as a question of honour, that the previous regime has a few industrial bastions that experienced severe difficulties following the change in regime and were somehow pushed back and lost their significance. Ózd is one of them, Ózd, Salgótarján, Komló, Dunaújváros, and we felt that we have a greater responsibility here than we would otherwise have with regard to people living in other parts of the country where things are functioning better. And accordingly we strove to draw attention to and place emphasis on these cities. And we moved forward; I am not sitting here to praise our own achievements, but we have also done much in the interest of the people of Ózd, but life here is still not as we would like to see it.

ZsB: We will be talking about that in greater detail a little later. In 2010, when you were last here in the city on several occasions, the first station in the series of national consultations was Ózd, I believe, and it is no accident that public safety was the main topic of discussion. How do you see the state of public safety today? What has changed since then?

OV: The opinion of the people who live here is perhaps more important than mine. What I can report on is to what extent we have performed the tasks we have undertaken. And I spoke to the local captains of police while on my way here and they reinforced what the Minister of Interior had already told me, that I can go to Ózd without having to worry, because we have performed what we undertook to achieve. Meaning that we promised to fill every police post and that the positions of district attorneys would also all be filled. Because while public safety was especially bad here compared to the rest of the country, it was here that we had the lowest number of police officers working with relation to requirements. There are now 3500 more police officers working in Hungary than there were previously. We have adopted a strict but just penal code with which we have succeeded in decreasing crime in the interest of law-abiding citizens, but the ratio of criminals is still too high in certain areas. One such area is Northern Hungary. And I don't think there will ever be enough police officers, because I do not believe that this issue can be handled solely as a policing issue. If we view public safety solely as a policing issue, we will never be able to find a solution. We need police officers of course, we need them in suitable numbers and we need good police officers who are on the side of the people and don't get mixed up with criminals. You are, I'm sure, aware that in recent years we have done our utmost to free the police force from such elements, and I think we have succeeded. We have also reorganised the police training system and I believe that our police schools are providing us with very highly trained and committed young people. But this is all not enough, because what we fundamentally require to achieve a suitable level of public safety is career, financial and social security. If people do not feel secure because they have no job or cannot make a living from their work, then the temptation to move over to the side of the criminals will always exist. And so the issue of public safety is also an issue of employment, job creation and social security.

ZsB: Since you have mentioned employment, this is clearly also an important issue in this region, but I think it has been a long time since there have been 4 million people working in Hungary.

OV: The country isn't doing too badly from this perspective, because few people thought that we could come this far, or at least there were few of us who believed this was possible. Luckily, I was one of them, and my feeling was that there can be no compromises on this issue. It can't be the case that other countries are capable of achieving it, that at least 4 million people have jobs in a country of 10 million, but the Hungarians are incapable of it; I could find no explanation for this and I am not prepared to accept this or a way of thinking of this kind. But I must recognise, or rather we must all recognise, that this may be an achievement, but it is still not the required or desirable state of affairs. Let me bring up for you the example of the Czech Republic, where the population is roughly the same as that of Hungary, but where 5 million people work. There is still much to do.

ZsB: There are still plenty of people here who want to work. One element of employment is public work, and you have achieved good results in this area too. And what is important, of course, is that we are talking about value-creating work here, and not what things used to be like.

OV: Look, public work used to be often just for show, and I am sure there are one or two cases of this kind today still, but the balance has tipped significantly. The ratio of useful work today is much higher than it used to be. And in addition we have now begun to introduce a public work system that is linked to training. And so I can today with a clean conscience tell the taxpaying citizens of Hungary, because they are the ones who provide the money to pay for the public work scheme, that the public work programmes launched using the taxes collected from them are useful; they serve the interests of the people who perform public work and they serve the interests of those people who give the state their tax forints for this purpose, because we aren't spending their money on maintaining a system of unemployment and benefits, meaning we don't just hand out their money in the form of benefits, but are instead giving people jobs. I think Hungary should raise its hat before its public workers. I keep receiving reports from all over the country of people who had until now thought their situation to be hopeless and who thought that they could never be able to get back into the world of work again, but who now have jobs again thanks to the public work scheme. And they want to get back to work! They don't need to be forced or coaxed into it, but they are coming forward and applying for jobs on their own accord. Roma people, Hungarians, all sorts of people who are in a difficult situation are applying irrespective of their origins, are doing a good job and are doing a good job together. I think public work is a great success. And all I can tell everybody is that after ten or fifteen years of being unemployed people need a gateway through which they can step back into the world of work from the world of benefits, and the public work programme is just such a gateway. Hungary, I repeat, can be proud of its public workers.

ZsB: Staying on the subject of employment, you have also achieved excellent results in for instance the automotive industry and the electronics industry. This can also be felt here in Ózd, because there are some companies here who are employing a thousand more people than they were before. 

OV: We are making progress, I would prefer to say. I repeat: we are believers in moderation. The slogan that the Government has chosen, that Hungary is performing better, is true to fact, but it is still not performing well enough. We don't say that it is performing well, but that it is performing better than previously and better that a good many other countries in Europe, but there is still room for improvement. There is much more in this country than we have coaxed out of it so far, and more than people usually think with regard to this country. Cooperation with employers is a key factor. Public work is important too, because you must begin building your house from the foundations too, and so those with the fewest qualifications must also have a stable income, and then we can build a world for people with higher qualifications on top of that. You are lucky in that the city has vocational training institutions that provide a very high standard of training to people and are capable of supplying the demands of industry in the area right up to the level of technician. You are also lucky with regard to the fact that you maintain a healthy cooperation with the University of Miskolc. I have already spoken to the Mayor and Member of Parliament Gábor Riz regarding the fact that an agreement will soon be concluded between your City and the University of Miskolc that will enable higher level jobs to be created here in Ózd than the current assembly line and skilled labour workplaces, and to enable the appearance of research centres and organisational centres. And so the goal is that there not simply be more jobs in Ózd, although that is of course also important, but that those jobs should be capable of linking into the Hungarian and international distribution of labour at the highest possible level.

ZsB: And of course supporting small and medium-sized businesses is also important. What resources and opportunities are available at all for this purpose? Because the usual problem around here is a lack of capital.

OV: To be honest, that is the most important issue. We need foreign investment. Here in Ózd too, if it weren't for these two or three large companies here in Ózd then the level of unemployment here would be much higher by several thousand. So I don't think we need to explain to anybody here in Ózd that foreign capital isn't our enemy. Providing we fit them into our economic policy in a suitable manner. Ózd is a good example of the fact that the people who work here fit in nicely. But even so, if we look at the numbers then Hungarian people are provided the most work by small and medium-sized enterprises. And so if Ózd doesn't have well-functioning small and medium-sized enterprises then we will be incapable of achieving full employment. Which is something you may be smiling at now, you aren't showing it, but you're smiling inside, but believe me that the objective of the Government is still for there to be full employment in Hungary, meaning that everyone who wants to work can make a living from work. And this is also true for Ózd, because Ózd is part of Hungary too. I would like to be able to sit here again at some time in the future, opposite you in this studio, and be able to tell you that everyone who wants to work can find job opportunities in Ózd too. This requires well-functioning small and medium-sized enterprises. We have made a very important decision with regard to the future, and that is that we will be putting 60 percent of the development funding available over the next seven years – partly from EU funds and partly from our own resources, and this is a significant improvement on the previous state of affairs – towards economic development, and the majority of it will be channelled towards small and medium-sized enterprises. There will be various programmes and the entrepreneurs of Ózd should follow developments closely, because they will also have the opportunity to become involved in programmes that help with the lack of capital.

ZsB: And while we are on the subject of new jobs, or the resuscitation of old ones, then we must definitely also talk about mining, especially here in Ózd. You have been to Japan recently, and if I am correct, coal was also a topic there. The Japanese have also been to this region on several occasions to discuss clean coal technology, this environmentally friendly new technology. What opportunities do you see in this energy source?

OV: Before we start talking about the Japanese, let's talk about ourselves. Because we are a strange kind of people: we accept new fashions so easily. Around twenty years ago they declared that mining has no future. And we had a long tradition of mining and a strong mining culture. We didn't only have mines; we had a mining culture. We had internationally acknowledged mining engineers, inventions and patents going back one-hundred to one-hundred-and-fifty years, and we had very well trained miners too. And in comparison, the situation now is that there isn't even any collier training. The Government is now involved in trying to re-launch collier training. In a country which has a long history of mining culture. We were so quick to conform to the alleged music of modern times, that "there will be no need for coal in the future", "there will be alternative energy sources" and "coal is really outdated", that we should almost feel ashamed if a country has coal reserves and want to mine them. This whole way of thinking is abnormal. A country, just like a family, can make a living doing what it is good at. We used to be very good at mining. And I think that knowledge still exists; it may not be as strong as it once was, but it still exists. We will re-launch collier training and we will extract our coal and the people involved will have jobs and their jobs will have credit. What you said is also true, that of course the world has developed a lot and new technologies have appeared. And we don't want to go back to medieval times or to the period that immediately preceded the most modern era, but we want to move forward, meaning we want to establish a modern mining industry in Hungary. In fact, a gentleman from around here, from Borsod County, Attila Kasó, works with me at the Prime Minister's Office and his job is specifically to work on the future of the Hungarian mining industry, and he receives a lot of help from Member of Parliament Gábor Riz. I have spoken with Gábor on several occasions and we came to the joint decision that we would not allow mining machinery to be sold and will generally attempt to maintain their current condition and preserve them for the hopefully better times ahead. So there will be a mining industry in Hungary again, but it is very difficult to re-establish something. It was easy to close mines and destroy the industry, but it is very difficult to re-establish it.

ZsB: The people of Ózd have high expectations for today, because – as you mentioned in your introduction – Ózd once had a flourishing steel industry, and you are now attempting to open new opportunities through a change in function. The steel factory is becoming a culture factory, and this process will begin today.

OV: Well look, I've looked through the figures. One looks at the figures before going somewhere, with regard to what we have done for the people who live here, and it seems to me that you have made quite a bargain with the current Government. Because we have taken 4.7 billion forints in debt off the city's shoulders. It is difficult to operate a city when each day you have to be worried about the creditors coming and closing the shop. And more than four billion, 4.7 billion forints, in debt had accumulated on your shoulders, which posed a huge burden both to the people who live here and to the city's leaders. This isn't the city's debt, but belongs to the people who live in the city, and it is difficult to plan for the future when you even have to worry about tomorrow morning. Well, we have solved this problem now, because, as we have done so in every settlement throughout the country, we have also assumed these debts from the people of Ózd. This provides a chance for the future; it gives people a breath of fresh air. So first we removed 4.7 billion forints in debt and now we have brought 2.5 billion, investments worth around 2.5 billion forints. That isn't a bad deal. I looked at the figures, and in addition we have also launched a hospital refurbishing project in Ózd as well as two school renovation projects at a cost of 500 million forints each. This is not enough. So if someone wants to interpret my words as meaning that I think everything is now in order, then that is not the case. This is not enough, but it is a lot more than there was previously. It is a lot more than can be expected from a country that is otherwise struggling with serious challenges as part of the economic crisis in Europe. These opportunities arrived in Ózd and the City of Ózd has been given these opportunities while Hungary was also grappling with the European economic crisis. I think this is a good achievement. I would like to stress the solidarity involved: I succeeded in finding allies. Your Mayor, Mr. Pál Fürjes was a good ally, as was your Member of Parliament; the people from the local civil guard, who do a lot for public safety in the area, were also good allies, and the police officers who work here were also excellent allies. I worked together with all sorts of people for whom Ózd and the future of the City of Ózd and of the people who live here was important – this is how we achieved these results. But to be absolutely honest, it would be good to have another four years in which to continue our work.

ZsB: Let's close this conversation with the general election then. On 6 April we will have the opportunity to once again decide who will be sitting in Parliament as our district representatives.

OV: Although I hope they won't just be sitting there but will be doing a lot of work.

ZsB: …work, yes, yes.

OV: …and travelling around their districts, because the districts have now become twice as large as they used to be.

ZsB: Yes, we can feel that in Ózd too. How optimistic are you?

OV: I was born optimistic, if I can give that as my reply. It is difficult to get down to the day's work if you don't believe that your work has some use. The point of our work is that we perform our work for the benefit of the country, and secondly that the people appreciate and acknowledge this fact. And in today's modern world and modern politics people can best express this by one again placing their confidence in our work. We are playing a sport, if I may use this analogy, in which success is nothing less that being entrusted with performing more work. This is why we work. I have done my utmost over the past four years to help the country get back on its feet, to give the people encouragement, to provide hope even in areas where things are going badly, to ensure that people feel that it is worth working, it is worth earning and it is worth working together and preparing joint plans and then realising as many of them as possible.
My feeling is that the country is in a better psychological state now than it used to be. This country now believes that it has a future. In 2010, it was not at all sure of that. And if people believe that we have a future then they are more inclined to mobilise their energies to realise that future. And if people are prepared to work then it is only a question of organisation for the whole thing to condense into the advancement of the country. I believe there is a good chance of this.

ZsB: Prime Minster, thank you for being with us today. Keep up the good work!

OV: Thank you for the opportunity.

(Prime Minister’s Office)