Prime Minister Viktor Orbán's Interview on 60 TV's "Commentary" Programme

Milán Jagodics: Good evening viewers! You are watching "Commentary", the magazine show. Our studio's guest today is the Prime Minster of Hungary, Viktor Orbán. Welcome to the studio!

Orbán Viktor: Greetings to all your viewers!

MJ: You were last in Hatvan in 2010. What are your experiences of the city now, compared to the situation then?

OV: Yes, I last sat in this hot seat in 2010, although with a different interrogator. At the time, we had a conversation that, how should I put it, concentrated on our plans. We spoke in future tense about what we should and what we would do if this happens or that happens. This conversation is different in that we now have for years of administration behind us. I can now talk to you about what we have done; what were our undertakings and to what extent we have we achieved. And this is also true of the city of Hatvan, and when I was walking across the city's main square with the Mayor a little earlier, we spoke about the fact that this is almost complete, this is finished, this will be ready soon, and we will begin work on that within a few months. So what is more at the centre of today's conversation and my visit to Hatvan on this occasion is action.

MJ: Yes, at the time you also talked about whether the development projects that had begun in the city would continue and whether there would be others. I assume you've seen that the Grassalkovich Mansion on the main square is being renovated?

OV: I haven't only seen it, but I've spoken to many people from Hatvan. I've spoken to children, who were just ice-skating, and with some of their parents; and the I've spoken to activists, who are our old supporters and with whom we belong in the same political community; I've spoken to some of the representatives of the city, and with lots of good people on the city's streets. And, they were people of differing political views, by the way, everyone agreed that things are moving forward here in Hatvan. The renovation works, main square construction and other building works going on project the feeling that Hatvan is regaining some of its former glory, and which Hatvan otherwise deserves, because this is after all a notable Hungarian city with a history going back over eight hundred years. And so irrespective of party affiliation, I wouldn't use the word satisfaction, because we are still far from that, but confidence, that's the right word, that things are finally happening, that was the basic feeling behind all of my conversations with the people of Hatvan.

MJ: Has the Government also succeeded in realising the plans that it set out for itself as absolutely necessary in 2010?

OV: We are moving in that direction, let us be modest and humble, we are moving in the direction we determined together with the people of Hungary. In comparison to the ugly and wretched conditions there used to be, when people couldn't even be sure when they voted for someone that they wouldn't start moving in a completely different direction, the fact that what is happening in the country now is what we were entrusted to do by the people is quite a good achievement, I think. The way I have always viewed politics, and my own profession, is that my job is to struggle in the interests of the people, to talk to them, consult and debate, and once we know what we want to achieve together, then my job is to do just that, or make sure that it happens. And we wanted workplaces, meaning we wanted this to be a country that makes a living from work instead of living off benefits; our approach was that the world after all owes all of us, every single person, the opportunity to make a living through work. So we tried to create jobs. In the private sector, through the public work scheme, and in certain places through deploying public sector employees, for instance I have just arrived here from Vásárosnamény, where we inaugurated a new state project that provides work for 300 people, a public administration unit; these are also important constituents of the economy. And the other thing we wanted to change was that since anyone can remember people have always been complaining about how low their salaries are and how high the cost of living is. And we wanted people to have work, but for the maximum amount to remain in their pockets; decreasing the cost of living was also one of our important objectives. And if you look at the situation now, the number of jobs has increased and we have already reduced utility charges two or three times, and as you know, gas prices will fall again in April and a further reduction in electricity and district heating prices is scheduled for September. So we have reduced the cost of living, meaning that people have more money left in their pockets at the end of the month. Because we had to somehow give people back their belief and hope in the importance of work, and I think this has been achieved. No government can ever say that it has done a good job until we are Europe's most highly developed country. That is still a long way off.

MJ: Yes, the figures show that there has definitely been progress as far as job creation is concerned. According to January's figures, unemployment has fallen once again and the number of people in employment exceeded 4 million last year.

OV: Here in Hatvan… I have just enquired as to the situation here in Hatvan and in Heves County. You are doing quite well. There are unemployed people here too, but you are doing quite well, the level of unemployment is far below the national average. I think the Mayor definitely deserves some acknowledgement for this, because Mayor Szabó, I think, has performed his duties with devotion and had succeeded in convincing many people that it is worth moving to and coming to Hatvan and expanding here. I believe he has, together with the Government, tried to put the hospital, which is an important centre of employment for you here in Hatvan, in order as much as possible and in fact to improve its operation, and he has won some development funding for that purpose. And so I think that the City itself, with the Mayor at the helm, had done a lot to be able to state that as far as employment goes, Hatvan is performing better than the national average. But I must also say in general that I did not want to resign myself to what prime ministers in Hungary have usually told people so far, that the economy isn't doing well, that Europe is in crisis, and so that means fewer jobs. But I also didn't want to increase the number of public sector employees and create a huge monster of a state again, like we had in the eighties, that then goes on to cause the collapse of the whole economy with its huge weight. And so instead we decided to launch the pubic work programme. And we said that people should make a living from work rather than from benefits, and so we should organise public work for them. And one of my greatest experiences, and also one of my most reinforcing experiences, from the past four years is that people want to work. So if there are jobs, public work, for instance, then people want them and stand in line for them. We have just employed 300 people is Vásárosnamény, but 900 applied for the available jobs. And so it seems to me that the people of Hungary have realised that they cannot go on living off benefits, and that if they don't help themselves, nobody else is going to help them. And they are ready to do just that, they just want to receive an acceptable, honest wage in return for their work. And if this is provided and there is reason to their work, then they will perform it. And this is equally true for Hungarians and Roma by the way, for those who lost their jobs six months ago and for those who haven't worked at all in the last ten or fifteen years. There is a general work atmosphere in the country.

MJ: The public work programme undoubtedly helps to increase employment, but does it also provide people with a suitable standard of living?

OV: It doesn't provide it to a sufficient extent, because I have just looked at the most recent data and saw that the average [wage] is 76 thousand, and that means that some people are earning less than that, because that is just the average, isn't it. And well it is very difficult or practically impossible to get by on this amount of money. And so what I say is that the word satisfied is a word that still belongs in the dictionary for now. It is not worth using it in everyday speech for the moment. We still have a lot of work to do so that people have more work opportunities and their wages are higher. But one thing is certain: if we shrug our shoulders and do nothing, don't organise public work programmes for instance, then people will have to make a living off 22,500 forints, because that is the current level of unemployment benefit. Public work that pays 50, 60 or 70 thousand forints is definitely worth more than 22,500 forints in unemployment benefit, not to mention the fact that it also gives people dignity, because they are after all performing some kind of useful public work. And this is why I find it especially offensive, and especially on the part of the opposition, when people look down on public work, because they are also looking down on the people who perform it. And these people, public workers, deserve praise instead, because instead of sitting at home and waiting for their benefit payments, they are finally getting up and going to work. I think we should acknowledge this achievement. And I know that these are not the most highly skilled jobs, but I don't like it when people from the Budapest elite degrade this kind of work and the people who perform this kind of work. Because all work deserves acknowledgement, we must acknowledge even the street sweeper if he sweeps the street well; if he does a good job, he deserves acknowledgement. Unfortunately, this way of thinking is still not universal in the Hungarian Parliament.

MJ: Unemployment is low in Hatvan itself, and this is definitely cause for confidence, but within the County, in the South Heves region and in the Tarnaság district we can still say that unemployment is somewhat higher, and from this perspective it is a more disadvantaged area. Has the Government set the objective of also helping these areas to catch up? How successful have you been and is further work in relation to this a priority?

OV: Heves County is a difficult place. There are parts of the County that are in a much worse state than Hatvan. We also need to develop those areas. We are doing our best to open up public work opportunities there, we are trying to develop transport and we are doing our utmost to work together with the mayors of settlements in the region. Disadvantaged regions of this kind clearly enjoy an advantage when it comes to the distribution of development funding. And in general I think the Hungarian Government is made up of people to whom rural Hungary is important. And the way we approach this is that we don't want to leave anyone behind, there isn't a single settlement that isn't at least as important to us as Budapest. Budapest may be one of the country's fantastic attractions in the eyes of the whole world, but people living in rural areas of the country are just as important. And so we must also help these settlements and the people who live there, and the Government is doing so. It is no accident, for instance, that when the Government recently relieved Hungary's local governments of their burden of debt it began by immediately assuming the debts of such smaller settlement, giving them some breathing space and enabling them to get ahead.

MJ: One of the largest traffic junctions in Hatvan will soon be renovated and you have renewed several stretches of road in the area, such as between Hort and Ecséd, but we can in general say that the state of the roads in the County and in the region is still relatively poor. Can we expect more road network development projects?

OV: We are trying. There is only so much money available. We can't spend two units of money on building roads, say, when there is one unit available. But we have done everything humanly possible. And accordingly the country has developed significantly and has also been performing better in this respect over the past four years. Now we must extend our motorways so they reach all the way to the border, this is the most important thing. But at the same time the state of smaller roads in the country is worrying. So we are now sending a few billion forints to every County so that the people there can decide which of their local roads they want to spend the money on. But things aren't quite right here in the City of Hatvan, where transport is otherwise good, because looking at the reconstruction of the main square., the old A3 highway still runs through the heart of the city, and obviously since people have to pay on the motorway, but that main road is free, some traffic is diverted here and this makes life a little more difficult. And so I have just been talking with the Mayor about the fact that we should build a bypass that diverts through traffic away from the city so that it doesn't go past people's houses. And the main square, how should I put it, it would look a lot more distinguished if the road didn't split it so forcefully in two as can be seen today. So, there are plans of this kind and I very much hope that they will be realised. I like working with your Mayor. I have thought a lot about whether it is a good idea to coax a good and proven mayor like him to attend Parliament. Because after all it was high time that the City of Hatvan had a good mayor; he is the kind of man who listens to people, to whom people can go up to in the street and ask questions, who is one of them and who cares about the city. And it seems to me that the Mayor has fulfilled the expectations we all had of him, not only with respect to the fact that he has achieved results, but also because people feel free to go up to him and ask him for help. But I said to him, when this difficult decision had to be made, because you can't be both Mayor and Member of Parliament at the same time now, I said Zsolt, you need to decide. And I told him that if what is most important to you is how you can most help the people of Heves County, and especially the people of Hatvan, then it would be more worthwhile to choose to be a Member of Parliament, because the City of Hatvan may be in a better state than it used to be and is performing better, but it will not be able to stand on its own two feet and develop on its own steam for now. It needs another four good years and the region needs development funding. And Hatvan needs a strong governing party MP in Parliament who is capable of acquiring such funding and who can guarantee to whoever is in government that the monies will be put to good use. So from the point of view of Hatvan you would perhaps do better to send this excellent Mayor to Parliament to be an MP for the governing party. Because he would be a waste of strength as an opposition MP, but if he becomes a governing party MP then he will be able to provide a lot of help to Hatvan and to the whole of Heves County. And in the end this is why we asked him to become a parliamentary candidate at the upcoming elections.

MJ: Yes, and we also felt many government efforts here in Hatvan. Such was the reinforcement of public safety; there are now security cameras protecting the city. Are you satisfied with the current level of public safety in Hungary?

OV: The situation is better than it was. And the culture of order has returned to people's minds, I think. The approach whereby we turn a blind eye to subsistence crime, and poor souls, they have to make a living somehow too, this culture has now changed. And it has become clear, especially now that we are organising public work for everyone and work is slowly becoming available to all, we may not be quite there yet, but we are approaching this goal, not even petty theft is a forgivable crime any more and responsibility must be taken for that too. The country has changed to its advantage with regard to its way of thinking in this field. We are now capable of putting 3500 more police officers on the beat than before. This is also an achievement, but it is still not enough, we need more police officers. There may be a police presence in practically every settlement in Hungary, because even if there is no local police officer, police patrols are present in even the smallest village at least once-a-day, but I would prefer it if every village had its own, permanently present, local police officer. And we are still far from achieving this too. We have purchased lots of new equipment for the police, and this helps to make their work more efficient. I think it is also important to note that the operational police has been significantly reinforces and is present practically everywhere throughout the country in places where the situation is relatively difficult, and especially here, in this region.

MJ: And we need them in South Heves, in the South Heves area.

OV: That’s right, and I would also like to increase their numbers and I would like to raise their wages. We are able to increase their salaries a little now, but it still does not represent a good living or what I think a young man who serves his country and maintains order would require or what he is working for, so we need to apply more funding here too. But on the whole, and I repeat, we shouldn't use the word satisfied just yet, things in the field of public safety have also been moved in a direction in which the people also feel we need to be moving, I would risk saying that. As you can see, I am doing my best to speak in moderation with regard to the past four years of government, because I see and hear such nonsense all over the place – the campaign is underway – and I don't think it's right. I think we should be using a more moderate tone. The country has achieved some good results and the Government has nothing to be ashamed of either, but I recommend that everyone speaks in a tone of moderation and modesty when talking about the future of the country.

MJ: Nearing the end of our conversation, let's also talk a little about the reduction in public utility prices.

OV: That's what we are most proud of. Yes?

MJ: That's right. And you have said that we can expect a fourth phase of reductions, although we know that the third phase hasn't been fully completed as yet, I believe more are to come, the last step will be in October. won't it?

OV: With the current Government, they way things work is that if we decide on something it's practically the same as if it has been realised.

MJ: I have no doubt that it will be realised.

OV: So the distance between words and action, which the Hungarians unfortunately had no choice but to get used to in previous years, has come to a stop. If we say something, we will then go and do it. In part, because this is what the people deserve, that we speak to them straightforwardly, and partly because calculability also requires it in addition to which it is also a question of pride, so we would rather say a little less but then let's go ahead and do it! So, you can take the third phase of utility price reductions as read. The price of gas will be reduced from April.

MJ: That's right, you've published the official decision on it.

OV: And after that the price of electricity will go down too, followed also by the price of district heating. I never make a secret of the fact that I would like to introduce further cuts in utility prices. We have before us an excellent opportunity and we are in an elated mood because the Government will be dealing with this issue of Wednesday too, and we have already held a total of 110 forums on the utility charge cuts. I said that 2014 would be the year of the struggle to preserve price cuts. The expression may sound a little strange, but the reduction in public utility prices will be attacked by many during the course of this year and we need to protect it. We asked the people to sign the petition and support us, and stand by us they did, more that 2.5 million of them. And after that we held meetings, over 110 of them throughout the country, and collected people's suggestions. And there are three, four, five concrete ideas, in addition to the prices, which are a problem everywhere from Mátészalka to Zalaegerszeg; we have now brought these ideas forward, performed the required professional preparation, and the Government will be discussing them on Wednesday. So we aren't simply reducing utility prices further, we are also realising the chance for fair treatment. This means that we will be taking a firmer stance with regard to service providers and they are going to have to make a few changes and treat people more fairly than they have until now.

MJ: Has there been talk of a fourth phase yet?

OV: Of course! We have just finished implementing the third phase, we are now transposing the recommendations of the utility forums into reality; we need to get through the elections and then we can talk about the fourth phase of cuts. I would like the provision of energy services in Hungary to be performed by companies who do not want to rake in profits, but instead, for it to be a non-profit sector as it is called. Because I would like to see prices going down instead of seeing profits being generated by service providers. This is not how the world was constructed in Hungary during the past 24 years. This will require a major shift on the part of both investors and large service providers, but over the course of the following four years I would like the price of electricity in Hungary to become the lowest in Europe, and not just for homes, but for enterprises too, because this is the only way we can be economically competitive on the world market.

MJ: Thank you for talking to us today!

OV: Thank you for the opportunity!

(Prime Minister’s Office)